Wednesday, November 09, 2016

There's a lawyer who's sure, all that glitters is gold..." Led Zeppelin On Trial: Part Three - Jimmy Page Answers The Same Question Many, Many Times

For decades the rumours had been doing the rounds and the evidence was damning.  One listen to Taurus by the band Spirit and you’ll swear black and blue that Jimmy Page had stolen the main guitar riff for Stairway To Heaven.  One day Randy California, the man who wrote Taurus would eventually sue Page and co. and he’d win, and win big.  It really was supposed to be that simple.

It was anything but simple.  Unlike previous cases brought against Page, Plant, Jones and Bonham, such as Willie Dixon suing over the obvious rewrite of You Need Love (aka Whole Lotta Love), or Jake Holmes finally winning a massive payout and partial credit after Page outright stole I’m Confused (aka Dazed And Confused) and other cases – Anne Bredon won a settlement for Babe I’m Gonna Leave You, Howlin’ Wolf got money for How Many More Times, The Killing Floor (aka The Lemon Song), Willie Dixon (again, got paid for Bring it On Home and the owner of Richie Valens publishing got paid for Ooh! My Head(aka Boogie With Stu).  All the cases were settled out of court, and all had non-disclosure clauses.

However the amount of songs that Zeppelin did steal was legion.  In My Time Of Dying and Nobody’s Fault But Mine were blues staples, already old when the band were in nappies.  Communication Breakdown owes a lot to Eddie Cochran’s Nervous Breakdown, Shake ‘Em On Down was yet another song, by Bukka White, already old before Plant sang it again and called it Hats Off To Roy (Harper).  Even Black Dog is rooted in blues and owes a lot to Oh Well by Fleetwood Mac.  So why did they steal?

Page was asked about that very topic in 1993 in the magazine Guitar World.  “Well, as far as my end of it goes, I always tried to bring something fresh to anything that I used,” he said at the time.  “I always made sure to come up with some variation. In fact, I think in most cases, you would never know what the original source could be. Maybe not in every case– but in most cases. So most of the comparisons rest on the lyrics. And Robert was supposed to change the lyrics, and he didn’t always do that– which is what brought on most of the grief. They couldn’t get us on the guitar parts of the music, but they nailed us on the lyrics.”  However, for this case, Page was looking to be nailed on the guitar line, not Plant’s lyrics.

The case was a bit of a shambles from the start.  Named as one of the songwriters was bassist John Paul Jones.  While an argument can certainly be made for Jones having more than the usual involvement in the writing and arranging aspect of the song, he’s not listed as a songwriter, which meant that he couldn’t be sued.  Simple.  Such oversights can make or break a case as it damages the credibility of the plaintiff right from the start and ties the court up in having to dismiss the case against a party, something it hates.  And then there was the time frame.

Randy California never sued over what he felt was a clear and obvious theft.  Sadly he passed away in 1997, either, depending on who you believe, bitter over the fact that Page and Plant had made millions from his distinctive guitar line, or just not really caring, having accepted it and moved on with his life.  Either way, he died and the Zeppelin machine continued on.

In 2007 Zeppelin flew again, for one night.  This irked the owner of California’s songs, one Michael Skidmore.  Then Jimmy Page oversaw new editions of the band’s back catalogue, bought, as you’ll read, for $60,000,000 for a ten year period by Rhino, complete as deluxe boxed editions and with companion discs.  As the companion disc of Led Zeppelin IV contained a previously unissued mix of Stairway To Heaven, this meant that the band could be sued – it was, for all intents and purposes, a new recording and eligible under the statute of limitations.  Armed with that knowledge, Skidmore filed suit and the music world sat back waited for Page and Plant to once again settle out of court.

They didn’t.  There’d be two songs that the band would never allow anyone to touch – Stairway and the epic Kashmir.  Plant isn’t fond of the former, it’s become a millstone around his neck and he refuses to sing it, however the latter is something that all the band members are rightly proud of and Plant loves to sing it.  Having a reluctance to sing a song doesn’t mean that you’re ashamed of it, so Plant joined forces with Page and decided to take the case to trial.

The case was filled with errors, as stated, from the beginning.  There were claims that Zeppelin opened for Spirit during the formers first American tour – this was proven to consist of a handful of occasions when both bands appeared on the bills at festivals.  There was the issue of Jones being credited as a writer.  Then there were the two songs themselves.  The lawyers for Skidmore had to prove on thing – that Page not only heard the song Taurus back in the late 1960s, but he consciously lifted the offending notes for the intro to Stairway To Heaven.  Jimmy Page might be old now, he’s 72, and he was being asked about events over forty years past (and a lot of drink and drugs have slipped under his bridge) and he has vision issues, but, when he wants to be, he’s as slippery as an eel and as sharp as a tack.

And then there was Robert Plant, the other half of Stairway.  Possessed of quick wit, intelligence and a memory that is clearer than even he would admit, he took the stand and said his own bit.

At the end of the trial the jury had no hesitation in reaching their verdict.  Did Jimmy Page have access to Taurus pre-Stairway?  Yes, he did.  Did he steal the guitar line?  No.  Not guilty, your honor.

Read here, for free and for what I believe is the first time, over the next three days, the complete trial transcript of both Jimmy Page and Robert Plant, as both men, under oath, go toe to toe with a lawyer hell-bent on getting them to admit one thing and one thing only – that they stole the opening guitar notes that virtually everyone in the world knows by now.  The transcript is hilarious in places, it’s exhausting in others as Page is badgered beyond belief.  But it is entertaining and you will learn a few Zeppelin related facts that you might not have previously known before.  Enjoy!

(courtroom illustrations by Mona Shafer Edward)

Trial Day 3, Thursday, June 16, 2016
8:17 A.M.
Los Angeles, California


THE COURT: Okay. Let's go. We were at cross-examination -- or excuse me, examination, and the record will reflect that the witness is on the witness stand.
JAMES PATRICK PAGE, PREVIOUSLY SWORN, CALLED AS A WITNESS BY THE PLAINTIFF, DIRECT EXAMINATION (CONTINUED)
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Mr. Page.
A. Yes.
Q. You had the opportunity to listen to three separate recordings of "Taurus" which I played for you outside the presence of the jury, correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. Were you able to hear them?
A. Yes.
Q. And it was your testimony earlier on that you have, in fact, in your possession and control, five Spirit albums, correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. And one of them's a double disc live album, correct?
A. An official release, yes.
Q. Now, when you listened to the first song, would you agree that the "Taurus" album recording and "Stairway to Heaven" album recording, Part A, is in the same key? Yes, it is? No, it's not?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection.
THE COURT: Objection is sustained.
Again, we're comparing "Stairway to Heaven" to the deposit copy, not to some other recording that he may have heard, okay?
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Sir, do you agree that there are -- do you agree that "Taurus" album recording is in your possession and control?
A. Sorry? Say that again.
Q. You agree that the "Taurus" album recording that you just heard is actually in your collection, in your possession and control, correct?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection, asked and answered.
THE COURT: You may answer it.
THE WITNESS: Yes, I have a copy of that first album.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  And that first album is Spirit's first self-titled album, correct?
A. Yes. Quite right, yeah.
Q. Did you have the opportunity to listen to the "Taurus" album recording as well as "Stairway to Heaven" Part A?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection, vague and ambiguous.
THE WITNESS: Umm, I'm not really sure what you mean by that.
THE COURT: Why don't you restate the question.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Do you agree that the "Taurus" album recording, which you just heard, and "Taurus" deposit copy, and "Stairway to Heaven" album recording are all in the key of A minor?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Counsel, we're not concerned with the recording. You could ask him about the recording as to whether or not he had access to the song before, but if it's similar to the recording, nobody cares. It's not an issue in this case. The only issue is whether or not it's infringing on the deposit copy.
Go ahead, Counsel.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Sir, do you agree that you had access to "Taurus" and you had that album in your possession and control?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection, calls for a legal conclusion, vague and ambiguous.
THE COURT: Just a second.
THE WITNESS: Sorry?
THE COURT: Overruled.
That means you can answer the question.
THE WITNESS: I do --
THE COURT: You want it restated?
THE WITNESS: Yeah, please. Yeah.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Do you agree that you had the "Taurus" album recording in your possession and control?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection, vague and ambiguous.
THE COURT: Overruled.
THE WITNESS: What I've said is, I have a copy of the album that contains "Taurus," but that I -- that I not – I didn't have any knowledge of "Taurus." So, in other words, a record appeared in my collection.
THE COURT: Okay.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Do you agree that the "Taurus" deposit copy and "Stairway to Heaven" album recording are both in the key of A minor?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection.
THE COURT: Overruled.
THE WITNESS: I don't know.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Sir, you're a session musician, correct?
A. Yeah, but I'm not familiar with the deposit copy.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. MALOFIY: Well, one moment. We'll provide Mr. Page Exhibit 2058, the "Taurus" deposit copy.
Q. You do read and write music, right, Mr. Page?
A. To a degree.
Q. And you've sat on hundreds of sessions, correct?
A. Yeah, that's correct.
THE COURT: Counsel, I'm sorry.
You're not familiar with the deposit copy at all?
THE WITNESS: No.
THE COURT: Can you testify, as to what you wrote, is that in the key of A?
THE WITNESS: A minor, yes.
THE COURT: A minor, okay.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  And do you agree that what you wrote is a tempo roughly about 72 to 73 BPMs in the first 2 minutes and 14 seconds of "Stairway to Heaven"?
A. Well, I never actually -- I never actually checked the tempo, you know, the beats per minute. I don't know.
Q. You know --
A. But --
Q. You would agree with me that there's something called a slow tempo, a medium tempo, and a fast tempo, correct?
A. Measured tempo, yeah.
Q. And you agree that "Stairway to Heaven" is not a fast tempo, correct?
A. Not -- not at the beginning, no.
Q. And you'd agree with me, in the first 2 minutes and 14 seconds it's a slow tempo, somewhere between 72 and 73 BPM, correct?
A. Well, okay.
MR. ANDERSON: Objection, lack of foundation.
THE COURT: If you --
THE WITNESS: Don't know.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Would you like to count it out and maybe you can determine that?
A. Well, have you got a -- have you got a meter, then?
Q. Umm, I can provide you one. One second.
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. I'm not sure what he's going to provide him and --
THE COURT: I don't know, either.
And I just want to remind you, Counsel, that there are time limits on presenting the evidence, and if you want to waste time going into it, that's fine, I'm going to let you do that, but keep in mind that this is not going to extend the time at the end of the case when you go into things that can be done much quicker.
Go ahead.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Let me just break it down. You agree that "Stairway to Heaven," the first 2 minutes and 14 seconds, is a slow tempo, correct?
A. Yes, I do. Yeah.
Q. You'd agree it's less than a hundred BPM, correct?
A. Hundred BPM sounds fast, yeah.
Q. Right. You'd agree it's probably less than 80 BPM?
A. Yeah, but I can't -- I can't estimate where it is. I don't know what beats per minute it is. But I -- but I agree, yeah, it's slow.
Q. So as you stand up here on the stand, and being a session musician and playing guitar and music for 30, 40 years, you're telling me that you can't determine approximately what the BPM of "Stairway to Heaven" is?
A. Yeah, I'm telling you that.
Q. Okay. You'd agree that the main instrument in the first 2 minutes and 14 seconds of "Stairway to Heaven" is guitar, acoustic guitar, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you have a pad or an accompaniment with the recorders which John Paul Jones played by himself on his own, correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. And you didn't tell him what to play, correct?
A. I didn't tell him not to play.
Q. Well, I understand that. My question is, you didn't tell him to play those recorder parts, correct?
A. He volunteered the idea of playing the recorders.
Q. And initially your idea was to put acoustic guitar and electric piano, correct?
A. It depends on where you're actually referring to. If you're referring to the opening, opening measures of "Stairway," where it's acoustic guitar --
Q. I am.
A. -- and then acoustic guitar with the first vocals, I always intended to have that as acoustic guitar. The electric piano was going to come in later.
Q. And "Taurus" has electric piano and acoustic guitar, correct?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection, Your Honor.
THE WITNESS: I don't know.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. ANDERSON: That's the performance.
THE COURT: Sustained.
THE WITNESS: Umm...
THE COURT: No, that means you don't answer. If I say sustained --
THE WITNESS: Oh, don't answer.
THE COURT: -- you don't answer.
Let's get the next question.
MR. MALOFIY: Sure.
Q. The arrangement --
A. Yeah.
Q. -- of "Stairway to Heaven," the first 2 minutes and 14 seconds, the structure is A A B A A B A A.
You testified to that earlier, correct?
A. Yes, you asked me yesterday.
Q. And you agree that's accurate, correct?
A. Well, I believe it to be, yeah.
Q. And the chord -- and the structure, song structure of "Taurus" is A A B A A B; isn't that correct?
A. I --
THE COURT: Of the deposit copy of "Taurus"?
MR. MALOFIY: Yes, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Okay.
THE WITNESS: I don't know.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. MALOFIY: I need to pull up Exhibit 2058 for Mr. Page.
Yeah, it's already been published. That's fine.
Correct, Your Honor?
THE COURT: Yes.
MR. MALOFIY: Thank you.
THE COURT: Can you tell from looking at the deposit copy enough to answer his question?
THE WITNESS: I mean, I can't tell.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. MALOFIY: One moment, Your Honor. Here it is.
THE COURT: Okay.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Sir, was your testimony you can't tell?
A. Yeah. You're asking me whether it's A A B's, A A's. I can't -- I can't really tell from this.
Q. You want to step through it? Take a moment.
A. Not necessarily. Because, how -- you know, how I'm looking at this, the first -- the first four bars don't repeat.
So that would be -- it goes into a sustain on the -- on the fifth and sixth bar, which would only give you one A, and I guess that's a B, is it, coming up, or what?
Q. Did you review the expert reports that were provided in this case by your side?
A. No, I didn't.
Q. Do you have any reason to dispute that your experts identified the structure as A A B A A B?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection, Your Honor, calls for --
THE COURT: Sustained.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Did you speak to your experts in this case at all?
A. No, I didn't.
Q. Are you providing any expert opinion as to the similarities between "Taurus" and "Stairway to Heaven"?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection, vague and ambiguous.
THE COURT: Well, we've already discussed the fact that he's not an expert in this area, so he can't give expert opinion.
MR. MALOFIY: I'm just clarifying the issue to be sure that on cross, to be sure that defense counsel doesn't elicit that testimony.
THE COURT: Just go ahead with the next question. If he does, we'll deal with it at that time.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Sir, did you do a musicological analysis on these two pieces of work?
A. No, I didn't. I -- I made sure that the people who were dealing with our side of it paid attention to the introduction and the first verse, et cetera, of what I'd played on "Stairway to Heaven."
Q. So you --
A. That's -- that's about my input into it.
Q. And I just want to be --
A. So I didn't check with them whether they had. I just -- you know, obviously --
THE COURT: Next question.
THE WITNESS: -- they knew it anyway.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  And you're not offering an opinion as to the similarities between "Stairway to Heaven" and "Taurus" as you sit here today, correct?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection again, vague and ambiguous as to whether he means him personally.
MR. MALOFIY: I mean him personally.
MR. ANDERSON: Then that's asked and answered.
THE COURT: If you were asked for your opinion, the Court would sustain it anyway, because you haven't been designated as an expert. So I'm assuming he's not offering his opinion, because it wouldn't be admissible.
MR. MALOFIY: Thank you.
Q. Sir, as you sit here today, can you definitively state the structure of the deposit copy of "Taurus" which is in front of you? Yes, you can? No you can't?
A. Can I what?
Q. Can you identify the structure, the song structure.
A. I prefer to hear it.
Q. Prefer to hear it. Let's do this. Hold on.
A. To check it.
Q. Hold on for a second.
Can you do it by looking at the deposit copy that's contained in Exhibit 2058? Yes, you can --
A. Well, I'm asking if I could hear what was played yesterday.
THE COURT: No, but --
THE WITNESS: No?
THE COURT: -- his question is, just from looking at it, can you make that determination?
THE WITNESS: Can I -- sorry, the last part? By looking at a deposit copy, can I --
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Definitively tell this jury what the structure of the song is. Yes, you can? No, you can't?
A. No, I don't think I can.
Q. Sir, would you agree that the harmony of "Stairway to Heaven" and the harmony contained in the "Taurus" deposit copy are the same?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection, Your Honor. Again expert testimony.
THE WITNESS: Umm, I don't know what you mean by harmony.
THE COURT: Overruled.
I'm sorry?
THE WITNESS: I don't know what he means by the harmony.
THE COURT: Okay.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Do you know what the word "harmony" means?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. What does it mean, sir?
A. It's usually two notes or three note, three part harmony all joined together.
Q. Would you agree that harmony is the combination of notes sounded simultaneously to produce chords?
A. Umm, well, it could be an octave, which is harmony, but then it could be a third in the middle or a fifth, yeah.
Q. Could be a first, a third, a fifth --
A. Yeah.
Q. -- an octave?
A. Yeah.
Q. Well, if you look at this deposit copy lead sheet of "Taurus" and you consider your composition "Stairway to Heaven" and we're focused on the first 2 minutes and 14 seconds, do you agree that the harmonies are the same?
A. No, I can't really tell.
Q. You can't make that determination as you stand up there today, correct?
THE COURT: That's what he testified to.
THE WITNESS: Yeah.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Let me move forward. Do you see two -- do you recognize two harmony lines -- excuse me, strike that.
Do you recognize two melody lines in "Stairway to Heaven" -- yes, you do? No, you don't? -- in the first 2 minutes and 14 seconds?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. All right. And those two melody lines, would you agree that it is the guitar, acoustic guitar progression, along with another part?
A. What I --
MR. ANDERSON: Objection, vague and ambiguous.
THE COURT: Overruled.
THE WITNESS: I don't know what you mean by "another part."
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Well, you identified that there are two melodies in "Stairway to Heaven," the first 2 minutes and 14 seconds, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And what do you define those two parts, sir?
A. Define the two parts as they're running at counterpoint.
Counterpoint, it's where you've got two melodies moving in two directions.
So the underlying melody is the one that starts on A, as the key is in A minor, and then it descends in a chromatic scale, which is one note -- passing notes next to each other, and those notes would be A, G sharp, G, F sharp, F. So that is chromatic rundown, okay? So going in --
Q. So you're referring --
A. Going in -- okay.
Q. Didn't mean to interrupt.
A. Going in counterpoint with that, on the top line is A, B, C, and then it goes down to F sharp.
Q. So let's be --
A. The first string.
Q. So let me be clear. You recognize two melodies. One is the descending chromatic chord progression, which is A minor, A minor over G --
A. G sharp.
Q. G sharp, and then F, correct?
A. It's A minor, A -- A minor --
Q. Over G --
A. -- 7 over G sharp, yeah, and then a G minus -- A minus 7 and then F, F -- D with an F sharp bass.
Q. Isn't it F major 7?
A. Where?
Q. On the F?
A. No. That's at the end. I didn't get there.
Q. Okay.
A. Yeah, so it's D and then it's F major 7.
Q. Let me ask you this. On the top line you identified A, B, and C --
A. Yes.
Q. -- of this ascending scale, correct?
A. Yeah, going -- going at counterpoint to the descending scale.
Q. It's ascending, right?
A. It's descending, which is A, G sharp, G, F sharp, F.
Q. Right.
A. And then on the top line you have A, B, C, F sharp.
Q. That's what I'm referring to.
A. Okay.
Q. You recognize on the ascending line there is an AB pair, a BC pair, and C to F sharp, correct?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. First of all, objection, expert testimony. It also misstates the testimony.
THE COURT: Sustained. We're getting into expert testimony and both sides have designated experts to testify in this area.
THE WITNESS: Yeah.
MR. MALOFIY: If I could --
THE WITNESS: Yeah, I think it's a little --
THE COURT: That's okay, I've sustained --
THE WITNESS: -- confusing for the jury to --
THE COURT: Remember what I told you yesterday. If I sustain the objection, you don't have to answer.
THE WITNESS: Okay.
THE COURT: If I overrule it, you do.
THE WITNESS: Okay.
THE COURT: Don't worry about it. I'll let you know if -- okay.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  I'll move forward, but just to understand your testimony correctly, you recognize two melodies in "Stairway to Heaven" Part A. Those are the descending chromatic line along with the ascending line A to B, B to C, C to F sharp?
A. Yes.
MR. ANDERSON: Objection.
MR. MALOFIY: Okay, thank you.
MR. ANDERSON: Misstates testimony and expert testimony.
THE COURT: Overruled. Next question.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Are you familiar with the term "cadence"?
A. Can you explain to me what "cadence" is.
Q. The way I look at it is, when you're running down a chord progression, it's how the song resolves and goes back to the  tonic. So, in other words --
A. Yeah, go ahead.
Q. -- are you familiar with the rundown in "Stairway to Heaven"?
A. Well, I am very, yeah.
Q. It doesn't go to the fifth, correct?
A. I don't know what you mean by the fifth.
Q. Well, you have the first, which is the A minor.
A. Yeah.
Q. And it doesn't ever go to the E, correct?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection, again expert --
THE WITNESS: Oh.
MR. MALOFIY: See?
THE COURT: Overruled. He's talking about his own composition.
MR. ANDERSON: Thank you, Your Honor.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  You understand what I'm saying, correct?
THE COURT: You can go ahead and answer.
THE WITNESS: Umm, okay. Just -- just ask me the question again, please.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Doesn't -- "Stairway to Heaven" chord progression does not go to the fifth.
A. Umm...
Q. It skips over the fifth and goes back --
A. Well, not necessarily. But you mean the note of fifth, which --
Q. That's right.
A. -- would be the A, right?
Q. It's absent, correct?
A. No, it isn't absent, because it catches up at the end of the whole of this first phrase. It's included there. So you've got your rundown coming from A through to the F sharp, F, and then it goes "dum, dum, dum," and at that point, that's where you get the E coming in.
Q. Tell me the first chord.
A. First chord is A minor.
Q. Second chord.
A. Is -- it's an A -- A major 7 over G sharp.
Q. Third chord.
A. Is A minor 7.
Q. Fourth chord.
A. Is D with an F sharp bass.
Q. Sixth chord.
A. F major 7.
Q. Okay. Does it ever go to the E before it resolves back to the A?
A. The E chord or the E note?
Q. E.
A. E note?
Q. Right.
A. Yes. After it goes -- after the F sharp major, it goes to like a sort of tail end, "dun, dun, dun," and that's where the E is there. It's then in -- playing in a fifth with the A.
Q. I'll move forward. We'll address that with your expert.
THE COURT: Okay.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Did you see your expert reports? You said no, correct?
THE COURT: He's already testified no, he has not.
THE WITNESS: Yeah.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Okay. Is it your testimony that "Stairway to Heaven" does not descend the five pitches and avoid the fifth chord, the E?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection, vague, ambiguous and expert testimony.
THE COURT: Overruled.
Do you understand the question?
THE WITNESS: Umm, I'm not sure, you see, what you mean by an E. If you mean an E chord --
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Correct.
A. Yeah, it's -- it's not actually an E chord.
Q. It misses the E chord, I want to be clear, correct?
A. Yeah, it goes to A minor, but the E is in an A minor.
Q. You would agree that the "Taurus" deposit copy also misses that E chord?
A. I don't know.
Q. Well, take a look.
A. Actually, I can't tell.
THE COURT: Okay.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  You can't tell by looking at the "Taurus" deposit copy lead sheet?
A. I can't see very well.
THE COURT: Okay.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Is there anything I can do to make that easier for you?
Perhaps we can blow it up.
THE COURT: No. Just move on to the next question.
He says he can't tell.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  You'd agree that both songs start in A, on the note A?
A. They start on -- yeah.
Q. Do you agree that every part of "Stairway to Heaven" is important?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection, vague and ambiguous.
THE WITNESS: Umm...
THE COURT: Excuse me. Overruled.
You may answer.
THE WITNESS: When you say A, it's an A octave on -- on the "Stairway to Heaven." I don't believe that it's an A octave on the other ones I've heard, "Taurus."
BY MR. MALOFIY:  What do you believe it is?
A. I don't know what it is. But it's not -- it's not an octave.
Q. It is an A, sir, correct?
A. It's an A note, but on the "Stairway to Heaven" it's an octave.
Q. There's multiple A's in a keyboard or an A in the note.
A. Yeah.
Q. Right?
A. That's correct. It --
Q. You can --
THE REPORTER: One at a time.
THE COURT: Counsel, please don't interrupt. Let's go one at a time, otherwise the reporter's going to miss both of you.
Okay. The --
MR. MALOFIY: Apologize.
THE COURT: -- question?
BY MR. MALOFIY:  They both start on the note A, correct?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection, asked and answered.
THE WITNESS: They start with an A note.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MR. MALOFIY: Thank you.  Do you agree that the first 2 minutes and 14 seconds of "Stairway to Heaven" is memorable and an important part of that piece of music?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection, compound and --
THE COURT: Overruled.
Is it an important part of the music?
THE WITNESS: Umm, yes, I think so.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Do you agree that the rhythm of "Stairway to Heaven" and the rhythm of "Taurus" are similar?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection, Your Honor. Again --
THE COURT: As to the sheet copy? Are you talking about the deposit copy?
MR. MALOFIY: Your Honor, you were very clear that we're talking about the deposit copy. That's why I have it in front of him as well.
THE COURT: So your question is -- say it again.
State the question again.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Do you agree that the rhythm in the first 2 minutes and 14 seconds of "Stairway to Heaven" and the rhythm identified on the "Taurus" deposit copy lead sheet --
THE COURT: Thank you.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  -- are similar?
A. Well, I don't know. It doesn't have -- you know, you asked me BPM, beats per minute. Does it have a BPM on this?
THE COURT: Well, if you --
MR. MALOFIY: Sir --
THE COURT: -- if you can see it --
THE WITNESS: I don't -- I don't know whether it -- what does it say? Does it --
MR. MALOFIY: Well, let's go through two things --
THE WITNESS: It doesn't actually say what tempo it's at.
THE COURT: Okay. So you can't tell?
THE WITNESS: I can't tell.
THE COURT: Okay. Next question.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  My question's a little bit different, Mr. Page. It's not what the tempo is, it's not what the BPMs are. It's the rhythm. You can identify rhythm by looking at the notes and looking at the duration of those notes, correct? There's whole notes. There's eighth notes. Do you see that?
A. Mm-hmm.
Q. Can you see that?
A. Yeah.
Q. You can see that, right?
A. I can see. I can see that, yeah.
Q. And you'd agree that those notes on that page indicate duration, correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. And you'd agree with me that even in the signature it shows that it's in common time, correct?
A. It's in common time, yeah, four-four.
Q. Common time means four-four, correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. You see that, correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. And so you can determine the rhythm here, correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. Thank you.
A. But determine the rhythm -- I can determine the pacing on there. I don't know what -- you know, I wouldn't know whether that was -- if I -- if I saw a piece of music, I wouldn't know what the tempo of it was unless it actually had an indication.
Q. Let's be clear to the jury. There's --
A. Slow, andante --
Q. -- a difference --
MR. ANDERSON: Your Honor, if --
THE COURT: Yeah, one at a time.
Go ahead, Counsel.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  You'd agree there's a difference between tempo and rhythm, correct?
MR. ANDERSON: Counsel keeps interrupting the witness and --
THE COURT: No, no. I've already covered that. Is there an objection to that question? If there's not, go ahead and ask it again, because we've been interrupted.
Ask again.
MR. MALOFIY: Thank you, Your Honor.
Q. Do you agree that there's a difference between tempo and rhythm?
A. Yes, I think I would.
Q. All right. And they are two separate, distinct musical concepts, correct?
A. Well, to me they are.
Q. And you'd agree with me that you can determine the rhythm by looking at the "Taurus" deposit copy lead sheet, correct?
THE COURT: Again, Counsel, you're asking for expert testimony, so why don't you move to the next question.
MR. MALOFIY: If you can't determine, I'll move forward.
MR. ANDERSON: Objection to the comment of counsel.
THE COURT: Yeah. He hasn't determined. He said he could or couldn't determine. I sustained the objection. He hasn't answered it.
Next question.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Do you agree that -- do you agree that you would double time pick the end of Part A on the acoustic guitar, of Part A of "Stairway to Heaven"?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection, vague, ambiguous, calls for --
THE COURT: Overruled. Overruled.
You may answer.
THE WITNESS: Umm, on the very last measures of where the vocals in, you mean, in "Stairway to Heaven"?
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Right, the last measures of 2 minutes and 14 seconds of using double --
A. Yeah, I'm doing more of a rippling pattern when the fingers start. Sort of doubles up. Is that what you meant?
Q. It is.
A. Yeah.
Q. Do you recognize that on the "Taurus" deposit copy lead sheet?
A. No.
Q. Do you want to take a look? If there's anything I can do to help you --
THE COURT: Counsel, he's looked at it. He said he doesn't.
MR. MALOFIY: Okay.
THE WITNESS: Your Honor, may I have a word? May I have a word? On --
THE COURT: On what?
THE WITNESS: Well, when we were describing the chords, I -- I omitted -- I omitted something, getting caught up in the whole rundown thing, that it's actually an A minor 7th 9th.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. MALOFIY: Thank you for --
THE WITNESS: Yeah, and that's really important to distinguish these two. I'm so sorry.
THE COURT: That's okay.
Next question.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Does any of the albums you have have a quote that says -- by Randy California, that says, "People always ask me why 'Stairway to Heaven' sounds exactly like 'Taurus,' which was released two years earlier. I know that Led Zeppelin" --
THE COURT: I'm sorry, you're reading something in front of the jury. What is this? Why don't you designate it first before you read hearsay in front of the jury? What are you asking of him?
MR. MALOFIY: I'm asking if his albums -- if his liner notes have this quote in regards to "Taurus" and "Stairway to Heaven."
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. That's a quote from what was played outside the presence of the jury.
MR. MALOFIY: It's not. It's actually on the liner notes. We believe it might be one of the albums he has.
THE COURT: I don't know if it is or not. Why don't you show it to him before you read it in front of the jury --
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
THE COURT: -- because --
MR. ANDERSON: And Your Honor, if he could show counsel, because I don't believe that's an exhibit that's been produced. Thank you.
MR. MALOFIY: This was produced, Counselor. I'll represent that. And it was included in the things that we provided you.
THE COURT: Are you talking about something he read on one of his albums? I don't know what you're asking.
MR. MALOFIY: It's for purposes of cross-examination and also to determine --
THE COURT: This is not -- this is direct examination at this point, but that's beside the point. He is an adverse witness. The question is, is what are you referring to? Is this a writing on an album cover? Is that what you're saying?
MR. MALOFIY: It's a quote attributed to Randy California which was --
THE COURT: No, no.
MR. MALOFIY: -- published as part of the liner notes in albums that we believe Mr. Page has.
THE COURT: And why would it not be hearsay?
MR. MALOFIY: I'm using it to refresh his recollection and to also see if whether or not he ever read that or which album he has.
THE COURT: Okay. Why don't you show him the quote and see if he's ever read it.
MR. ANDERSON: Your Honor, if counsel could identify by exhibit number so we can look at it or --
MR. MALOFIY: One moment.
MR. ANDERSON: Thank you. Thank you.
THE COURT: Counsel, I gotta be honest here, I still don't know where you're going with it. If it's a quote on an album he had, he still can't testify to this unless he was the person making the statement. It's still hearsay. So therefore, it'll be excluded.
MR. MALOFIY: I'll move forward, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Sure.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Outside the presence of the jury you heard a live recording of "Taurus." Do you recall that?
A. Yes, I do.
THE COURT: In fact, you heard three. Oh, one live recording, yes. I'm sorry, Counsel, you were correct. Number two was a live recording.
THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE COURT: Okay.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Then do you agree with Randy California's statement that preceded that --
THE COURT: Counsel, that's a very improper way to get hearsay in front of the jury.
MR. MALOFIY: I'm just --
THE COURT: If it's a statement by Randy Wolfe or whoever it is, it's a statement by him. You can ask him what he said, but you can't ask him what somebody out of court has said.
MR. MALOFIY: I wasn't going to offer the statement. I was going to offer whether or not he heard it and agreed with it.
THE COURT: You're going to state the statement in front of the jury, and that --
MR. MALOFIY: I wasn't --
THE COURT: -- would be improper.
MR. MALOFIY: I wasn't going to. That's why I wanted to confer with counsel. I wanted to ask him, did he hear the statement that Randy California made in regards to "Taurus" and "Stairway to Heaven," and do you agree with that statement?
THE WITNESS: I disagree with that statement.
MR. MALOFIY: Thank you.
Could we play audio exhibit 2023-V. Excuse me. Video exhibit 2023-V.
THE CLERK: I'm sorry, 2023?
MR. ANDERSON: If we could have just a moment, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Sure.
THE CLERK: And are you going to ask to have that moved in?
MR. MALOFIY: Yes.
THE COURT: Okay. Any objection?
MR. ANDERSON: No objection.
THE COURT: It will be received. You may publish it.
MR. MALOFIY: Twenty- -- I'm sorry, 2023-A.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. ANDERSON: Your Honor, could we just have a moment?
MR. MALOFIY: You want a moment?
MR. ANDERSON: If I could just ask counsel?
THE COURT: Go ahead.
MR. ANDERSON: No objection, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Okay.
(Received in evidence, Trial Exhibit 2023-A.)
MR. MALOFIY: Ready?
MR. ANDERSON: Yeah.
(Audio was played.)
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Sir, are you familiar with that piece of work?
A. Certainly am.
Q. And in fact, in your declaration in this case, you referenced it as giving you an idea to use in "Stairway to Heaven," correct?
A. I don't think -- did I say it like that?
Q. I think you said it like that. Do you recall that?
A. That's not exactly right, but what I did say is that it has the same four note rundown -- or five note rundown on this one as "Stairway," yeah.
Q. Sir, is it your testimony that "Chim Chim Cher-ee" inspired you to write "Stairway to Heaven"?
A. No, I didn't say that.
Q. Is it your testimony that you used the compositional elements in "Chim Chim Cher-ee" to write "Stairway to Heaven"?
A. No.
Q. Is it your testimony that "Chim Chim Cher-ee" and "Stairway to Heaven" have similarities to them?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection, Your Honor, expert testimony.
MR. MALOFIY: It's his declaration.
THE COURT: Sustained.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Sir, do you remember your declaration?
A. No. Not verbatim, no.
Q. Did you write your declaration?
A. Oh, sorry. The declaration.
Q. Yeah, the declaration, where it identified --
A. Sorry, I was getting mixed up with the deposition. The declaration. Is that the discovery, is it?
Q. It was what you provided, you signed under oath and you provided in this case, and you identified pieces of work that --
A. Yeah, okay.
Q. -- was inspirational in forming "Stairway to Heaven."
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. I believe it mischaracterizes the document.
THE COURT: Sustained.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Do you recall in your deposition that you identified "Chim Chim Cher-ee" as a piece of work that you used as inspiration for "Stairway to Heaven"?
A. I don't believe that I did say it like that.
Q. How do you believe you said it?
A. Well, it's -- it's slightly confusing. I think I may have said that it -- that the chord se- -- the chord sequence is very similar, because that chord sequence has been around forever.
Q. Do you recognize that chord sequence that you just said has been around forever is the same chord sequence that "Stairway to Heaven" has with the "Taurus" deposit copy? You recognize that?
A. No, I wouldn't go so far as to say that.
Q. You said if you heard -- when you heard "Taurus" the first time, it was unique and you would have recognized it.
Do you believe that there are similarities or there are no similarities in "Stairway to Heaven" and "Taurus" deposit copy?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection, mischaracterizes the testimony yesterday.
THE WITNESS: I'm sorry, I got --
THE COURT: Overruled.
THE WITNESS: -- lost from "Chim Chim Cher-ee," "Chim Chim Cher-ee."
THE COURT: Okay. Let's get off "Chim Chim Cher-ee" for a second. Why don't we state the question again.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  You recognize similarities in "Chim Chim Cher-ee" and "Stairway to Heaven," is that what you're telling this jury?
Correct?
A. It's -- yeah, a sequence, yeah.
Q. Do you also recognize similarities in "Taurus" deposit copy and "Stairway to Heaven's" --
A. Well, I'm not sure --
Q. -- that would have -- excuse me.
A. -- the deposit copy. I've been saying that. I didn't --
Q. You can't determine that.
THE COURT: That's what he's indicated, he can't determine.
THE WITNESS: Yeah.
MR. MALOFIY: Let me do this.
THE WITNESS: I believe we heard the deposit copy yesterday of the "Taurus," and you could hear the descending line.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  You'd agree that it has a descending line, correct?
MR. ANDERSON: Your Honor, again, if he could wait, if counsel could wait until the witness is finished talking.
THE COURT: Overruled.
The question is, do you agree there was a descending line in "Taurus?"
THE WITNESS: Yes, I do.
THE COURT: Yes.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  And do you agree that also it's a descending arpeggiated line? Correct?
A. Arpeggio, yeah.
Q. And did you also, when you listened to the "Taurus" deposit copy --
A. No, no, no. Wait a minute. I -- no. I need to be refreshed on the "Taurus." No. I -- I -- I -- what I said was, I could hear that there was the descending line. That's what I said.
THE COURT: Okay. Next question.
THE WITNESS: I really need to hear it again to be able to give expert opinions.
THE COURT: Excuse me. Next question.
MR. MALOFIY: Yes. I'd like to play for Mr. Page what we previously had played, which is the "Stairway to Heaven" Part A re-recording, 524-V.
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. I'm not sure why we're playing a re-recording rather than "Stairway to Heaven."
That's the allegedly -- that's the work that they're suing over.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. MALOFIY: Your Honor, we're just focusing on the Part A, that's why. We're just -- we're not focusing on the other elements that are not copyrightable. We're just focusing on Part A.
THE COURT: I'll tell you again, you have time limits.
You're wasting a huge amount of time getting into quasi expert -- he is not designated as an expert. You're going to have -- I'm assuming you have experts. I don't know if you're going to have time for them, but I'm assuming you have experts that are going to testify in this area. Just use your time judicially is all I'm saying.
MR. MALOFIY: I'll move forward, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Okay.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Sir, is it your testimony that "Stairway to Heaven" was written in -- was written in 1970, 1971?
A. 1970 I think I would have said.
Q. Was it recorded in 1971?
A. I think it's recorded at the end of 1970, in December.
Q. Now, is it your testimony as you sit here today that the recording of "Stairway to Heaven" and the writing of "Stairway to Heaven" occurred at Headley Grange?
A. The compilation of "Stairway to Heaven" as far – Headley Grange, yes.
Q. And do you agree that the album recording took place thereafter at Island Records?
A. That's correct.
Q. And do you agree that after it was tracked at Island Records, you then came to the United States and you did additional mixes of "Stairway to Heaven"?
A. Umm, along with other tracks from the fourth album.
Q. So you came to the United States and did additional work on "Stairway to Heaven" --
A. No. What do you mean by additional work?
Q. Well, you were mixing it in the studio in L.A., correct?
A. Oh, I see. Mixing. Yeah.
Q. Am I -- is that accurate?
A. Yeah, that's -- mixing, yeah.
Q. And would you agree that it was called Sunset Studios where you mixed it in? Would you agree it was in Sunset Studios where you mixed it?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection, vague and ambiguous.
THE COURT: Overruled.
THE WITNESS: I seem to remember it was called Sunset Sound, but it could be Sunset Studios.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  And do you agree that the mixed version that was recorded -- excuse me. Strike that.
Do you agree that the mixed version that was done at Sunset Studios was recently released as part of the reissues in the last three years?
A. Yes, that's correct.
Q. You say that you wrote "Stairway to Heaven's" guitar intro, the first 2 minutes and 14 seconds, by yourself, correct?
A. Yes, that's right.
Q. And you also say that later Mr. Plant had added lyrics; is that correct?
A. Yes. At Headley Grange.
Q. And it's your testimony that this occurred at Headley Grange, correct?
A. The process where Robert is writing the lyrics with me, yes.
Q. Isn't it true that you initially wrote only the introduction of "Stairway to Heaven" on an acoustic guitar, Part A, and Mr. Plant had added some lyrics at a Welsh cottage called Bron-yr-Aur?
A. That's incorrect.
MR. ANDERSON: I'm sorry. Withdrawn.
THE COURT: Okay. You may answer.
THE WITNESS: Yeah, incorrect.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Why do you say it's incorrect?
A. Because it wasn't -- it wasn't something that we were doing at Bron-yr-Aur. It's something that was done after we were at Bron-yr-Aur. In other words, we did it at Headley Grange.
Q. Do you recall the band members of Led Zeppelin, including yourself, saying that it was written, just the intro, the Part A, at a cottage in Bron-yr-Aur with an acoustic guitar, and maybe Mr. Plant had added a few lyrics? You don't recall that, correct?
A. The members of the band saying that? No, I don't. I don't.
Q. I'd like to play --
A. However, however, I do know that there is, and I guess this is what you're going to show me, an article whereby I say it starts at Bron-yr-Aur.
Q. Excuse me?
A. There is an article where I'm quoted as saying that -- that it was -- that I was playing the introduction at Bron-yr-Aur, but it's not right.
Q. The introduction.
A. Yeah.
Q. Let's play clip 100165-A, Zig Zag audio.
THE CLERK: Is that in evidence?
MR. MALOFIY: It was -- it's not in evidence in this case as of yet. It was defendants' exhibit.
THE COURT: Want to introduce it?
MR. MALOFIY: Yes, I do, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Any objection?
MR. ANDERSON: We never got to numbers like that on defendants' side, so I really don't know what exhibit. So if we could just have a moment to --
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. MALOFIY: It's defendants' Exhibit 165. I just prefaced it with 100,000 so it wouldn't change the Bates, to make it easy and clear.
MS. FREEMAN: 165?
MR. MALOFIY: 165.
THE CLERK: And can I get the page number from 165?
MR. MALOFIY: It's audio. So it's 100165-A.
THE CLERK: Thank you.
MR. ANDERSON: Our description of it is not what counsel is describing 165-A, so I'm confused as to what counsel's about to --
THE COURT: Why don't you both go over at a break, and you can re-call the witness if you wish. Unless you want to waste time now and talk about it.
MR. MALOFIY: This was produced by defendants in discovery.
THE COURT: Counsel, you want to discuss it, that's fine, but it's eating up time. This should have been done before trial. All of this should have been done before trial.
That's part of the preparation for trial.
MR. MALOFIY: All of our exhibits, we --
THE COURT: So Counsel, if you want to talk about it, that's fine, but it's going to come off your time. If you'd like to wait until the next break and talk about it, that's fine, and you can re-call this witness and play it for him then, whichever way you want to go.
MR. MALOFIY: Give me one moment, but --
THE COURT: Sure.
MR. MALOFIY: Just for the record, these were all provided to counsel before trial.
THE COURT: Counsel, I don't want to get into the discovery and the lack of professionalism and the discovery in this case and before this case. You know and I know what we would be talking about. Go ahead and do what you want to do.
MR. ANDERSON: Your Honor, may I -- counsel would like to confer, so --
THE COURT: Sure.
(Counsel conferred privately.)
THE COURT: Ladies and gentlemen, let me ask you, because I normally break to give you an even amount of time before and after. If you want to break now while they're discussing all this, we can do that, or we can wait until 10:00 o'clock. Do you have a preference? You want to break now?
Okay, let's break now, take our 15-minute -- that means the second session's going to take a little longer. That's okay?
Okay, we'll break now.
Remember the admonishment not to discuss the case among yourselves or with anybody else or form or express any opinions about the matter until it's submitted to you and you retire to the jury room. We'll see you back in 15 minutes.
THE CLERK: All rise.
(Recess held from 9:46 a.m. to 10:04 a.m.)
(In the presence of the jury:)
THE COURT: Okay. Ready to go until 11:30? Great.
The record will reflect that all the members of the jury are in their respective seats in the jury box and the witness is on the witness stand, and we were still in direct examination.
Counsel, you may inquire.
MR. MALOFIY: Yes. We had audio exhibit 100165 that we'd like to play for Mr. Page --
MR. ANDERSON: And Your Honor --
MR. MALOFIY: -- for --
MR. ANDERSON: Sorry. My apologies.
MR. MALOFIY: -- play for Mr. Page for impeachment purposes.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. ANDERSON: Your Honor, this is -- we've conferred, and I do not believe this is an exhibit that was either produced by us or produced to us. Counsel indicates that, if I understood correctly, that it was produced within the last week, which I assume means that it's on the hard drive of 1500 files that was handed to me on Tuesday.
THE COURT: Is that when it was produced?
MR. MALOFIY: No, that's absolutely incorrect.
THE COURT: When was it produced?
MR. MALOFIY: It was produced by defendants in this case in response to our first document request. He's referring to the transcription. I'm referring to the actual audio that defendants produced to plaintiff in this case.
THE COURT: Okay. You may play it.
MR. MALOFIY: Thank you.
(Audio was played.)
MR. MALOFIY: Pause it right there.
Q. Did you hear that?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Is that your voice, sir?
A. Well, yes, it is.
Q. And does it not say -- in regards to writing "Stairway to Heaven," it said, "Like the intro of it I came up with at Bron-yr-Aur in the cottage where we were together." Did you hear that?
A. I did hear that.
Q. Now, does that refresh your recollection that when "Stairway to Heaven" was initially written, it was written, you in a cottage with an acoustic guitar, and all that was there was just the intro, correct?
A. No, it doesn't refresh my memory to that at all, because --
Q. Is --
A. -- that -- that's -- that's incorrect, the statement that's said there.
THE COURT: The statement that you made at that time was incorrect?
THE WITNESS: Yeah, about Bron-yr-Aur, it's incorrect.
THE COURT: Okay. Next question.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Is your memory today better than it was shortly after writing the piece in 1972?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection, vague and ambiguous as to writing the piece. I'm not sure what he's -- it's a recording.
THE COURT: Overruled.
The question is, is your memory better today than when that statement was made?
THE WITNESS: Umm, yes. Well, I don't know about yes or no. I'd like to think my memory's pretty good, though.
May I ask a question, please? Is this --
THE COURT: No, no. Excuse me.
THE WITNESS: No.
THE COURT: I know it's a little difficult, but it's gotta be done by a question and answer, and if your attorney wants you to go further into something, he will ask you to expand on it.
Go ahead, next question, Counsel.
THE WITNESS: Yes.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  So just to be clear, do you believe your memory of the events in writing the introduction to "Stairway to Heaven" were more clear and present in your mind in 1972?
THE COURT: Counsel, it's been asked and answered.
He's already answered it. I hate to push you on this, but we're wasting a lot of time.
MR. MALOFIY: Understood, Your Honor. I'll move forward.
THE COURT: Okay.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  When it said in this quote, "when we were together," who are you referring to being together with in Bron-yr-Aur?
A. Well, I'm not referring to playing "Stairway to " -- oh, you -- at Bron-yr-Aur. I probably -- I think I'm glitching by this point. It's a mammoth interview, a very long one, and when I'm saying "together" -- well, sorry, what is the question exactly as far as us being together? Go on.
THE COURT: Why don't you restate the question.
MR. MALOFIY: Sure.
Q. Did you spend time alone with Mr. Plant in Bron-yr-Aur cottage in the Welsh mountains prior to recording "Stairway to Heaven"?
A. We had been to Bron-yr-Aur cottage, but we didn't do "Stairway to Heaven" at Bron-yr-Aur cottage.
Q. I understand that's your testimony here today. The audio that we just heard says something different, correct?
THE COURT: Counsel, that's argumentative. The jury's heard them both.
MR. MALOFIY: Understood.
Q. The person you're saying -- referring to as being together, it was referring to Mr. Plant, correct?
A. I'm sorry? Say that again.
Q. In that interview, when you said you were together with someone in Bron-yr-Aur, would that be referring to Mr. Plant?
A. Well, I'm not sure whether I'm meaning Bron-yr-Aur or whether I'm meaning Headley Grange there. You know, I've glitched quite clearly.
THE COURT: That wasn't his question. His question is, when you said "with somebody else," would that somebody else been Mr. Plant? If you know.
THE WITNESS: Umm, but it depends on the location, you see, so I don't -- I'm not referring to that. I have to -- not -- I can't really be clear about that, because it's -- it's a glitch as far as, you know, what I'm saying there.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. MALOFIY: I'll move forward.
THE WITNESS: It's hard -- it's hard for me to --
THE COURT: Excuse me. You've answered the question.
Next question.
MR. MALOFIY: I'll move forward.
For cross-examination impeachment purposes, please play audio 164-A.
THE CLERK: Has that been admitted into evidence?
MR. MALOFIY: Yes, your -- Miss Williams.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. MALOFIY: And that's 100164-A, BBC Arms of Atlas interview, which was provided by defendants in this case in response to initial production.
MR. ANDERSON: My problem is, the exhibit numbers he's using don't match the exhibit numbers on what was provided or the joint exhibit list, so if counsel could please just explain what this is, and then we could basically disregard the exhibit numbers.
THE COURT: Okay. Go ahead. This all should have been done before trial. Go ahead.
MR. MALOFIY: It's 100164-A. You produced it to us in our initial production. Your Bates number --
THE COURT: He's asking what it is, not --
MR. MALOFIY: I identified it as BBC Arms of Atlas Our View interview, which was produced by defendants in this case.
MR. ANDERSON: Based on that description, Your Honor, and representation of counsel, we don't have an objection.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. MALOFIY: May we play it, Your Honor?
THE COURT: Yes.
MR. MALOFIY: Thank you.
(Audio was played.)
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Did you recognize the first person's voice in that interview?
A. Yes.
Q. That was your voice, right, sir?
A. Yes indeed.
Q. And the second person's voice was Mr. Plant's voice, correct?
A. That's right.
Q. And the third person's voice was Mr. John Paul Jones’ voice, correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. And Mr. John Paul Jones in that interview had said that you and Mr. Plant had come back from the Welsh mountains with the guitar intro and maybe a verse. Did you hear that?
A. I heard what he thought, yes, he thought what we'd done.
Q. Did I hear it correctly?
A. That's what he says.
Q. And that's also what you had said in that prior audio clip that we heard from 1972, correct?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection, mischaracterizes the evidence.
THE COURT: Sustained. We've already covered that.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Is it your belief that both of these quotes are wrong?
A. As far as my quotes, I know that's wrong. As far as the John Paul Jones one, could you just play it again?
Q. Be happy to.
A. Yeah.
MR. MALOFIY: We'll play it from the beginning.
Excuse me. I'll just queue it up to the relevant portion if that's acceptable to the Court.
THE COURT: Okay.
(Audio was played.)
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Did you hear that?
A. Yeah, I hear what he's saying.
Q. And you also dispute this audio quote of your band member, John Paul Jones, who also said that you, Mr. Page and Mr. Plant came back from Welsh cottage with a guitar sequence and intro and maybe a verse?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection, argumentative and mischaracterizes --
THE COURT: Overruled.
MR. ANDERSON: -- the testimony.
THE COURT: Do you dispute that that was true?
THE WITNESS: That -- that he -- that -- he says that.
That's what he might have thought that we'd -- that we'd done it, wherever. I don't know where he thought we'd done it, but -- but he -- well, I do, because he's saying that he thought we did it at Wales, but --
THE COURT: Okay.
THE WITNESS: -- that wasn't the case.
THE COURT: Next question.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Do you believe that "Stairway" crystallized the essence of Led Zeppelin as a band?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection, vague and ambiguous.
THE COURT: Overruled.
You may answer.
THE WITNESS: Oh. No. No, I don't think so. I don't think any one song crystallizes the essence of Led Zeppelin.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Did you ever say, "I thought 'Stairway' crystallized the essence of a band"?
A. I might have done --
Q. "It had everything there and showed the band at its best.  Every musician wants to do something that will hold up a long time, and I guess we did that with 'Stairway.'"
Do you remember --
A. Well, I might have been referring to crystallizing like all the sum parts. Do you know what I mean?
THE COURT: Okay, but you might have said that?
THE WITNESS: I might -- I might have said that, yeah.
THE COURT: Next question.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  You'd agree with me that when "Stairway" was initially written, it was a guitar intro chord sequence --
A. No, I disagree with that.
Q. -- and a verse?
You disagree with that?
A. Mm-hmm.
Q. I'll move forward.
How many times did you meet Mr. Randy California?
A. I've no recollection of meeting Randy California.
Q. How many times did you interact with Mr. Randy California?
A. I've no recollection of meeting him or interacting with him.
Q. You remember hanging out with him at an afterparty in the UK in 1973 after they performed there?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection, Your Honor, lack of foundation and mischaracterizes the evidence.
THE COURT: Well, he's already said he's never met him.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Does that refresh your recollection?
A. I'll say no.
THE COURT: Okay.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Do you recall ever going to a Spirit concert?
A. No. Although -- although there was some times when we were on the bill, but I didn't see them. Are you referring to in England?
THE COURT: No. He just said have you ever seen them, have you ever gone to a concert.
THE WITNESS: No.
THE COURT: And you've answered no, they may have been on a bill with you, but you'd never seen them.
THE WITNESS: Yes, right.
THE COURT: Okay. Next question.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Do you recall a CBS afterparty in '73 after they performed at the Rainbow, where you interacted with members of Spirit?
A. I certainly don't.
Q. Did you ever hang out with an individual by the name of Larry Fuzzy Knight, a bass player?
A. No. I don't know who he is.
Q. He was a bass player in Spirit after the first lineup, after Mark Andes was no longer the bass player.
A. Well, who was he with beforehand? Because I obviously never saw him in Spirit. Who did he play with beforehand, when you say hanging out with him?
Q. I'm not sure. We'll bring him on the stand later on, we can ask him that. Let me move forward to something else.
A. Yeah, the answer to it is no.
Q. No. Okay. Let me move forward to some additional questions.
You made a lot of money from "Stairway to Heaven," correct?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection, lacks foundation, vague and ambiguous.
THE COURT: Sustained.
BY MR. MALOFIY:   Did you receive compensation from the exploitation of "Stairway to Heaven"?
A. Well, we would have got royalties for it.
Q. The last -- recently isn't it true that you signed a publishing deal where you received, as a band, 60 million dollars for your catalog?
A. Well, I don't know about that, but I signed catalog -- I've signed publishing contracts, yeah.
Q. Do you recall publishing --
A. But I don't know what -- I don't know what the terms of them are.
Q. Do you recall signing a publishing contract where you were to receive 60 million dollars over the course of time?
MR. ANDERSON: Your Honor, Counsel said recently, but we're talking something -- about something way outside the three-year statute of limitations, so it's within the motion in limine.
MR. MALOFIY: It's -- respectfully, it is not with that -- it's not out of the three-year statute of limitations.
It's contained within portions of the payments.
THE COURT: The question is, do you recall receiving such a contract for production of "Stairways to Heaven" that was produced within the last three years?
THE WITNESS: Just "Stairway to Heaven" or the whole catalog of Led Zeppelin?
MR. MALOFIY: Well, respect --
THE COURT: Well, you can clarify it, Counsel.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Sir, it was the catalog of Led Zeppelin --
A. Catalog.
Q. -- which contained --
A. Mm-hmm.
Q. -- the song "Stairway to Heaven."
A. Mm-hmm.
Q. Okay. Do you recall signing a publishing deal where you received 60 million dollars?
MR. ANDERSON: Again, Your Honor, it's outside the statute of limitations, and it's within the motion in limine.
THE WITNESS: I don't know how much the amount of money was for, but I did sign a contract.
THE COURT: You signed a contract, and it was for a production within the last three years?
THE WITNESS: Yeah, I guess so, yeah.
THE COURT: Okay. Okay.
MR. MALOFIY: I'd like to pull up Exhibit D – excuse me. Strike that. Pull up Exhibit 100642.
MR. ANDERSON: Your Honor, up until today there have been no exhibits in the hundred-thousands. This is the continuing problem, and so if there is an exhibit on the hard drive that I was given the first --
THE COURT: Is this for purposes of impeachment, Counsel?
MR. MALOFIY: Oh, this is -- this is -- it's for purposes of showing him the publishing contract which he signed, which was produced by defense counsel. What we did --
THE COURT: Sustained. Next question, Counsel.
The discovery on this has been abominable, and it should have been taken care of before trial, and we're not going to get into that discussion here in trial.
Sustained. Next question.
MR. MALOFIY: What I'll do to make it easier for defense counsel, and I'll just share with you --
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. MALOFIY: -- when we have an exhibit a hundred-thousand and then 642, we put all your discovery at a hundred-thousand. So it wouldn't change your initial Bates numbers. So it would be D --
THE COURT: Counsel, we're trying a case here. We're not having a private discussion between the two of you. You can do that at the break.
Next question.
BY MR. MALOFIY:
Q. Sir, do you recall signing a record deal with Rhino Entertainment where you received 10 million dollars?
A. As part of the band, yes.
Q. Okay.
A. Well, I don't know if it's 10 million. I don't -- I don't know the figures, but I did sign a contract, but --
Q. And didn't that include compensation for the song "Stairway to Heaven"?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection, calls for legal conclusion, lacks foundation.
THE COURT: Sustained.
But the contract that you signed was for material. Did it also include "Stairway to Heaven"?
THE WITNESS: It included all material.
THE COURT: Okay. Next question.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Isn't it true that Flames of Albion's a music publishing company for the Led Zeppelin catalog?
A. Umm, I think -- I believe it is.
Q. Isn't it true that you're a director of that publishing company?
A. Yes.
Q. Isn't it true that you control that publishing company?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection, calls for a legal conclusion.
THE WITNESS: No.
THE COURT: Overruled.
THE WITNESS: I don't know that I control the company.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Isn't it true that all the money that Flames of Albion receives then gets distributed to the individual living members of "Stairway to Heaven"?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection, lacks foundation.
THE COURT: Overruled.
THE WITNESS: I think it get -- it gets -- I believe it's more than that. I think it's the living members and also the estate of John Bonham.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  I would agree. Thank you for the clarification.
But you would agree that the only people that are participants in that publishing company is Mr. Plant, Mr. Page, yourself, Mr. John Paul Jones, and also the heirs of Mr. John Bonham, correct?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection, vague and ambiguous as --
THE COURT: Overruled.
THE WITNESS: Yeah, I believe that's the case.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  And there's no other individuals that benefit directly from Flames of Albion publishing company, correct?
A. I don't think so.
Q. Okay. And you would agree with me that all the money that comes in the Flames of Albion then gets passed through to these beneficial individuals, correct?
A. Yes, I believe that's how it works.
Q. Is it fair to characterize this entity, Flames of Albion, as a pass-through entity? It passes through the income to the individuals?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection, vague and ambiguous, calls for a legal conclusion.
THE COURT: Overruled.
THE WITNESS: Can you repeat that, please?
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Is it fair to characterize Flames of Albion publishing company as a publishing company that passes through the financial interest to the individual members of Led Zeppelin, including the living heirs or heir of John Bonham?
A. Like -- like -- like a holding company, and then it redistributes, yeah. Is that what you mean?
Q. Exactly.
A. Yeah. Yeah.
Q. Thank you.
We just talked about a record deal with Rhino Entertainment Company a moment ago. You testified under oath that you received 10 million dollars as part of that record deal, which included the whole catalog of Led Zeppelin material, including "Stairway to Heaven," correct?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection.
Excuse me. Sorry, Counsel.
Objection, mischaracterizes the testimony, argumentative, and lacks foundation.
THE COURT: Overruled.
THE WITNESS: Can you repeat it? Repeat the question.
Sorry.
MR. MALOFIY: I'm going to have the court reporter read it back, if she may.
THE COURT: No, Counsel. You can repeat the question.
MR. MALOFIY: Okay. Fair enough.
Q. Do you recall just a moment ago testifying that you were involved in a record deal with Rhino records where, for the Led Zeppelin catalog of music, including "Stairway to Heaven," 10 million dollars was received?
A. I believe so.
Q. I'm going to show you a document by defendants, Bates number D040194.
MR. ANDERSON: Counsel --
This is a document that was designated confidential under the protective order in the case. We have asked that it not be published, and it's dealt with -- the subject's dealt with in our trial brief. No response was ever provided by plaintiff.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MR. MALOFIY: Thank you.
(For identification, Trial Exhibit D040194.)
MR. MALOFIY: May we publish it, Your Honor?
THE COURT: I don't want you publishing it, but you can ask him questions about it.
MR. ANDERSON: Thank you, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Some of the document may or may not be -- be --
MR. MALOFIY: What I'd like --
THE COURT: But you can show it to him, and you can ask him any questions you want about it.
MR. MALOFIY: Since we're not publishing it to the jury, would you like me to present it to Mr. Page?
THE COURT: Sure, if you'd like to.
MR. MALOFIY: May I approach?
THE COURT: Yeah, and you can ask him any questions you want about it, but part of that document may very well be privileged and not public.
(Document was handed to the witness.)
THE WITNESS: Thank you very much.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  I'm going to direct your attention to the last page.
Before I do that, could you just read the title of that document?
A. "Confidential."
Q. Oh.
A. That's what it says at the top.
Q. Could you read me the Bates number all the way at the bottom right-hand corner, please. It starts with a D.
A. Oh. D040241.
Q. One more time.
A. D040241.
Q. Thank you.
I want to pull it up on the system here, not publishing it to the jury, with the Court's indulgence.
You see the back of that document?
THE COURT: Back page?
MR. MALOFIY: Yes.
THE COURT: Yes.
THE WITNESS: Yes, I do.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Do you agree that it's your signature above the line, with the name Jimmy Page below the line?
A. Correct.
Q. Do you agree that this is a accurate document as it relates to your publishing deal?
A. I don't know about that.
MR. ANDERSON: Objection, Your Honor. Counsel's referred to it as an agreement with Rhino. That's not a publishing deal, so it's argumentative, misstates the document.
THE COURT: Counsel.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Just to be clear, that's your signature, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you recognize your signature, correct?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. And you would -- isn't it fair to characterize this document as a Flames of Albion publishing deal where Led Zeppelin or the surviving members or the heirs receive 60 million dollars for the catalog of Led Zeppelin songs?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection, calls for a legal conclusion and lacks foundation.
THE COURT: Overruled. Overruled.
THE WITNESS: I've no idea. I've no idea. I'm
looking at the last page of the document that says "Confidential" at the top in huge letters, and I see -- I see the -- I see my signature and the other members of the band.
THE COURT: So you signed that document?
THE WITNESS: I signed this document for sure.
THE COURT: How would you describe the document? What is that document?
THE WITNESS: I don't know what it is.
THE COURT: I'm sorry?
THE WITNESS: I don't know what it is. There's so many legal documents that I guess relate to Led Zeppelin.
THE COURT: If you want a second to look at it and tell me if you --
THE WITNESS: Oh, sorry, that -- do excuse me. It does say Rhino Entertainment Company, and somebody signed underneath that, so presumably it's something to do with the Rhino deal.
THE COURT: Okay.
THE WITNESS: But I don't know whether it's to do with publishing or whatever.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  I'm sorry, let me read it to you here. I have it in front of me. It says, on the top, "Rhino Entertainment Company, a Warner Music Group Company." It's dated July 2nd, 2012.
Do you see that on the first page of that document?
A. On the first page? You asked me to look at the last. Oh. Oh. I can't really see that.
Do you mind if he comes and points it out to me?
THE COURT: I do mind.
THE WITNESS: Because I can't -- I can't really --
THE COURT: That's okay.
THE WITNESS: On the first page?
MR. MALOFIY: I'll make this easier --
THE COURT: Sure.
MR. MALOFIY: -- if I could.
I'll represent this is -- this document is a Rhino record deal, it's for 10 million dollars, it was for Led Zeppelin's catalog of music, and that Mr. Page had testified that he signed it on the back page, and I'd just like to move it into evidence, Your Honor.
MR. ANDERSON: Your Honor, I think counsel's actually testifying. If I --
THE COURT: He's proposing a stipulation so we can get this thing moving.
MR. ANDERSON: Okay. If I could just have a moment to look at it, because --
THE COURT: Go ahead.
MR. ANDERSON: -- of the characterization of it as a publishing agreement. That's what concerns me.
MR. MALOFIY: Record deal with Rhino. Come over here.
MR. ANDERSON: Can I have a second to look at it?
MR. MALOFIY: I'm going to show it to you here.
MR. ANDERSON: Oh, I apologize. And this is the entire contract?
(Counsel conferred privately.)
MR. ANDERSON: Thank you, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Okay. So stipulate?
MR. ANDERSON: Yes, that is the 2012 Rhino contract.
THE COURT: Okay. That's fine.
Go ahead, Counsel. Thank you.
MR. MORENO: Publish it?
MR. MALOFIY: No. It's into evidence and --
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. MALOFIY: In regards to the Flames of Albion publishing deal, not the record deal we just discussed, but the publishing deal, for the purposes of showing it to Mr. Page and having him authenticate his signature, may I approach the bench, Your Honor?
THE COURT: Yes.
MR. MALOFIY: Thank you.
THE COURT: So we're talking about two separate contracts; is that correct, Counsel?
MR. MALOFIY: That is correct, Your Honor. The first one we just identified and moved into evidence was the Rhino record deal. This is the publishing deal.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. ANDERSON: And just for clarification, it's a 2008 publishing deal.
THE COURT: Okay.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Can you read me the Bates number on the bottom right-hand corner of that document, Mr. Page?
A. Yes, certainly. It's D000650.
Q. And do you agree that this is the Flames of Albion publishing deal where Led Zeppelin, the surviving members and the heirs of John Bonham, received 60 million dollars over a course of time for the Led Zeppelin song catalog?
A. I can't agree with that till I've had a look.
MR. ANDERSON: Objection, Your Honor --
THE COURT: Excuse me.
MR. ANDERSON: I'm sorry. It's a 2008 contract, so it's way outside the statute of limitations and within the motion in limine --
MR. MALOFIY: He -- this is --
MR. ANDERSON: -- number 9.
MR. MALOFIY: This has been raised repeatedly. The payments are in the statutory period, and they're for a period of ten years, which brings it to 2018.
THE COURT: Does this concern publishing rights for things that were produced before three years ago?
THE WITNESS: It -- it's dated January the 1st, 2008.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. MALOFIY: With all due respect --
THE COURT: Sustained, Counsel. I'm not going to argue in front of the jury. We've talked about it many times in the past. Sustained.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Is that your signature on the back page of that document?
A. Yeah, it is.
MR. MALOFIY: I'd like to move that into evidence, Your Honor.
MR. ANDERSON: Objection, relevance, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Sustained.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Do you agree that the monies attributable to this publishing deal were received in the last three years?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. It's a 2008 contract. The payments were under that contract. It's way outside the statute.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. MALOFIY: One moment, Your Honor, with the Court's indulgence.
(Plaintiff's counsel conferred privately.)
MR. MALOFIY: I have what's been marked by defendants, I'll use their Bates label so it would be easier, D39243, Report of Directors and Unaudited Financial Statements, Year End March 31st, 2015, for Flames of Albion.
MR. ANDERSON: Okay. If counsel could also provide the exhibit number, that would be helpful.
THE COURT: Is there an exhibit number on it?
MR. MALOFIY: Yes. Hundred-thousand 39243.
THE COURT: Okay. Go ahead, Counsel.
(For identification, Trial Exhibit D139243.)
MR. MALOFIY: May I approach Mr. Page?
THE COURT: Yes.
MR. MALOFIY: With the Court's indulgence, one moment, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Sure.
While they're looking at that, ladies and gentlemen, let me help you a little bit, because you may wonder what we're doing here as far as time limits go.
There's a statute of limitation period, and the only thing that's going to come for your decision is if there is an infringement during that statute of limitation period. If it's before, doesn't make any different. But if there is an infringement during the statute of limitation periods and what are the damages that were produced from that infringement, and so that's why we're limiting it to the time period we've talked about.
MR. ANDERSON: While counsel's doing that, to move things along, could I raise a point, Your Honor?
THE COURT: I don't know if --
MR. ANDERSON: Okay.
THE COURT: Okay. Let's wait until it becomes an issue.
MR. ANDERSON: Okay. Thank you, Your Honor.
MR. MALOFIY: Thank you for the Court's indulgence.
THE COURT: Counsel.
(Document was handed to the witness.)
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Do you see that, Mr. Page?
A. See what, sir?
Q. The document.
A. Yes.
Q. Do you agree it says "Report of Directors and Unaudited Financial Statements for Year End March 31, 2015, for Flames of Albion"?
A. It does say that.
Q. That's the title of the document, correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. Now, if you go to the first red flag there, which I've marked to direct your attention, do you see that?
MR. ANDERSON: If counsel could identify where he put the red flag.
THE COURT: Page number?
MR. MALOFIY: I can identify it by Bates number, Your Honor, if you would like.
THE COURT: Go ahead.
MR. MALOFIY: D039247.
THE COURT: Thank you.
THE WITNESS: Oh, I'm looking at 245 with that little tag.
THE COURT: Is that tag on 245?
THE WITNESS: Yeah, it is.
MR. MALOFIY: I'm sorry, let me address 245 first.
On 245 -- may I take a moment to look at 245? One second.
THE COURT: Yes.
MR. MALOFIY: I thought I'd be able to publish it, so I didn't think I'd have to have an extra copy, Your Honor.
Q. To be clear, on 245, the directors are listed as J.P. Page, R.A. Plant, J. Baldwin, and J. Hudson. Do you see that?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. And that would be Mr. Plant, Mr. Page, Mr. John Paul Jones, I guess professionally known as, and may be legally known as J. Baldwin; is that correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And then the heir of Mr. John Bonham, who is the deceased drummer of Led Zeppelin. I believe it's -- is it -- oh, I'm sorry. And then there's a Joan Hudson, correct?
A. It says Joan Hudson.
Q. Okay. Let me move forward to the next tab that you see, which I'll represent is D039247.
A. Right.
Q. It says "Profit and Loss Account for the Year Ended March 31st, 2015." It has 6.6 million pounds going in, and at the end, it has -- and for administrative expenses, it has 6.6 million dollars, leaving a net profit of zero dollars at the end of this period. Do you see that?
A. I do see that.
Q. Did I read that correctly?
A. I did -- did you? Umm...
MR. ANDERSON: Your Honor, I have an objection.
THE COURT: Go ahead.
MR. ANDERSON: Flames of Albion is not a party to this case. This is basically gross figures that don't -- aren't attributable to "Stairway to Heaven" in particular. I don't really see the relevance of it, and I believe it lacks foundation.
THE COURT: Overruled. And you can argue that on -- when you're putting on your case.
MR. ANDERSON: Okay. Thank you, Your Honor.
THE WITNESS: Okay. So the turnover, it gives a figure for the turnover.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Six point --
A. And administrative expenses, it gives a figure for that.
And then, yeah, basically at the end says profit financial year. Is that what you're getting at?
Q. Right.
A. This is -- yeah.
Q. Profit zero.
A. Yeah.
Q. 6.6 million dollars went in for the year ended March 31st, 2015 -- sorry, 6.6 million pounds went in for year ended March 31st, 2015, and 6.6 million pounds went out for the year ending March 31st, 2015, leaving zero dollars net profit, correct?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. The document speaks for itself, and there's no foundation that this witness knows anything about accounting.
THE COURT: Overruled.
Is that what it says?
THE WITNESS: It says that, yeah.
THE COURT: Okay. Next question.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  And earlier on you testified that Flames of Albion was a publishing company --
A. Yeah.
Q. -- for Led Zeppelin's catalog that acted as a pass-through entity to benefit the individual surviving members and the heir of Mr. John Bonham, correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. Okay. Now, let me go to exhibit -- excuse me, Bates number D039289. I believe it's the next flag, red flag on the side there for your orientation, Mr. Page.
A. Yeah.
MR. ANDERSON: I believe this is a separate -- objection. I believe this is a separate document from the one that's been identified.
THE WITNESS: Okay.
MR. ANDERSON: He's combined several.
THE COURT: Is it all part of the same document?
MR. MALOFIY: Yes, it is, Your Honor. It was produced by defendants.
THE COURT: Overruled.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  If you go to the middle of the page there, I've circled it for you for your orientation, it says "Related party disclosures."
A. Yeah.
Q. Am I reading it correctly? "The company is controlled by J.P. Page."
A. Yes, you are.
Q. Did I read that correctly?
A. That's what it says.
Q. That's you, correct?
A. That's me.
Q. Okay. Now, on the bottom, it also identifies --
MR. ANDERSON: Your Honor, and I apologize, but he's -- he's got a Flames of Albion contract, which is – or document, which is a publishing contract. He's attached a Super Hype Tapes, another entity that is in this case, that is a record company -- or not record, but record related. These are different reports that have been combined into a single exhibit.
THE COURT: As I say, you can get into that on your case in chief when you're talking to the jury. You can explain all that to the jury.
But it's part of one exhibit; is that correct, Counsel?
MR. MALOFIY: This was --
MR. ANDERSON: No.
MR. MALOFIY: -- produced by defense.
It is, Your Honor. It's the attached -- it's the attached documents that support this aud- --
THE COURT: No, Counsel. I'm asking you, it's part of one exhibit? I don't care if you have six documents or a hundred documents --
MR. MALOFIY: Yes.
THE COURT: -- if it's introduced as one exhibit.
And then, Counsel, when you present your case, you can get into the fact that there are different documents in this exhibit and they're not related, okay.
MR. ANDERSON: Thank you, Your Honor.
THE WITNESS: Yeah.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Just to go back to the question, this is a company controlled by J.P. Page, correct?
A. The company's called Super Hype Tapes.
Q. That's controlled by you?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Now, it identifies on this page three other entities: Classicberry Limited, Trolcharm Limited, JPJ Communications Limited.
Are those three companies also pass-through entities where the individual members of Led Zeppelin receive publishing royalties which then get passed through to them individually?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection, lacks foundation, and vague and ambiguous.
THE COURT: If you know.
Overruled.
If you know.
THE WITNESS: Umm, no, I think that's how -- I think these are the companies that -- you know, when it gets shared out in the holding company, we're talking about it gets shared out, or distributed out. These -- these certainly, the -- yeah, Classicberry is my company, for example.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  And this money that then gets distributed and shared out --
A. Yeah.
Q. -- and goes to the individual members --
A. Yeah.
Q. Trolcharm is Mr. Plant's pass-through entity, correct?
A. What it says here, yeah. Yeah.
Q. Okay. And JPJ Communications is John Paul Jones' pass-through publishing entity, correct?
A. I guess it is, yeah.
Q. And those monies benefit the individual defendants, correct? You, Mr. Plant --
A. Say that again.
Q. Those monies that pass through these publishing entities benefit you, Mr. Page, Mr. Plant, and Mr. John Paul Jones, correct?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. Objection. They're not publishing entities. Again, counsel's confusing different things. But I -- I apologize for that, Your Honor, but it also is vague and ambiguous.
THE COURT: Okay. Overruled.
These entities, the money passes through them to you if you wish to use the money; is that correct?
THE WITNESS: Umm, it -- yeah.
THE COURT: Yeah. Okay.
THE WITNESS: Yeah.
THE COURT: Next question.
MR. MALOFIY: Yes.
Q. I'd like to move to D -- the page -- the Bates number on that packet of -- on those financial statements, it's D039321.
A. Which is that? It's next one coming?
Q. It's down in -- it's deep in that stack with the red flag, Mr. Page.
A. Well --
Q. The following red flag.
A. Is it? Well, the following red flag -- oh, yeah, 319. Is that it? Is that the one? D0 --
Q. I believe it's 39 --
A. D0 --
Q. I'm sorry.
A. D039319. That's the next flag.
Q. One moment. Let me just take a quick look.
Is it 39321, or am I reading that incorrectly?
A. The next flag on, from the very last one that we were looking at, which was 289, last three digits, the next flag on from there is the one that goes D039319.
Q. Please go to the next flag, 39321.
A. Certainly.
Q. Do you see that?
A. Yeah, I can.
Q. And it says "Profit and Loss Account, Year Ended March 31st, 2015." Do you see that?
A. Hang on a minute. 31st of March, 2015.
Q. You see that?
A. Yeah.
Q. And it says recording royalties, roughly 10 million pounds. Do you see that?
A. I wouldn't say it was roughly 10 million pounds. I'd say it was closer to 9-1/2.
Q. Let me give you the number exactly. 9.696658.
A. Yeah. Yeah.
Q. 9.6 million pounds?
A. Yeah, that's what it says.
Q. Is that better?
A. Yeah.
Q. Okay. 9.6 million pounds. And then if you look at the expenses, it's 9.7 million pounds. Do you see that?
A. Yeah.
Q. And then leaving a net profit of zero, correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. Did I read that accurately?
A. Yeah.
Q. Okay.
I'd like to move this financial statements into evidence, Your Honor. I don't know if I did that earlier on.
THE COURT: I don't know if you have or not, but I'm assuming there's an objection to it, and --
MR. ANDERSON: Yes, Your Honor.
THE COURT: -- it will be overruled. They'll be received.
MR. ANDERSON: One point, though. These and the other financial documents, as they are designated under the protective order, if they could be segregated out and sealed.
THE COURT: They'll be -- that's correct, they'll be received under seal.
MR. ANDERSON: Thank you, Your Honor.
(Received in evidence, Trial Exhibit D139243.)
MR. MALOFIY: Almost done, Mr. Page.
Maybe two minutes of questioning and I'll be through with Mr. Page. With the Court's indulgence, I just want to check one document.
THE COURT: Counsel, anytime an attorney says two minutes, they never mean two minutes. But go ahead. Go ahead.
MR. MALOFIY: I'm just getting it pulled up right now.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. MALOFIY: Thank you, Your Honor.
I'll continue my questioning. I hope I find the document before we finish.
Q. Is it your position that you own the copyright for "Stairway to Heaven" along with Mr. Plant?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection, calls for a legal conclusion and relevance.
THE COURT: Overruled. Or excuse me. Sustained.
Sustained.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Do you know who owns the copyright for "Stairway to Heaven"?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection, relevance.
THE COURT: Sustained.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Do you claim to be a writer on the copyright of "Stairway to Heaven"?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection, vague as -- and ambiguous as to writer on a copyright.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Do you claim to be a writer of "Stairway to Heaven"?
THE WITNESS: Yes, I do.
THE COURT: Okay.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Who else?
A. And Robert Plant.
Q. Is it a 50/50 split between you and Mr. Plant as to the writing credit?
A. Yes, it is.
MR. MALOFIY: I'd like to pull up Exhibit 2708, which is the "Stairway to Heaven" deposit copy.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. MALOFIY: Any objection, Counsel?
MR. ANDERSON: I just wanted to confirm. Thank you, Counsel.
I don't want to hold it up. If -- based on counsel's representation that it's the -- I'm sorry, the deposit copy, you said?
MR. MALOFIY: Yeah.
MR. ANDERSON: If it's the deposit copy for "Stairway to Heaven," I have no objection.
THE COURT: Okay. You may publish it.
(Exhibit was displayed on the screen.)
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Have you ever seen this document, Mr. --
MR. ANDERSON: If I may, I believe the marking on the touchscreen has to be cleared. It relates --
THE COURT: We can clear it. It can be cleared.
Okay. He's got it.
MR. ANDERSON: Oh, okay. Thank you.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Do you see that copy of the "Stairway to Heaven" deposit copy?
A. Yeah, I do.
Q. Have you ever seen this before?
A. I'm not sure that I've seen it before, but during the course of all of the paperwork that I've seen relative to all of this trial, it might have been slipped by me, but I – you know, I hadn't really intently focused on it like I am now.
Q. Do you recall ever writing the score for "Stairway to Heaven" that was deposited in the copyright office?
A. In so many words, what -- did I write that?
Q. Exactly. Did you write what's --
A. No, I didn't, no.
Q. And even though you wrote "Stairway to Heaven," you didn't write the deposit copy score which was submitted with the copyright office, correct?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection, asked and answered and irrelevant.
THE COURT: He said he didn't.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Do you agree that this deposit copy is inherently bare in not having all the notes to "Stairway to Heaven"?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection, relevance.
THE COURT: Sustained.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Is the solo part of "Stairway to Heaven" identified anywhere in the "Stairway to Heaven" deposit copy?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection, relevance.
THE COURT: Overruled.
THE WITNESS: It has the lyrics, in the top line of the lyrics.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Maybe my question wasn't clear. I'll restate it.
Can you point to where on the deposit copy of "Stairway to Heaven" it indicates the solo?
A. I'll have to have a look.
Q. And if you need us to scroll down, I believe it's a few pages.
A. Umm, I think you need to scroll down one more.
(Exhibit was displayed on the screen.)
THE WITNESS: Please scroll one more.
(Exhibit was displayed on the screen.)
THE WITNESS: Please one more.
(Exhibit was displayed on the screen.)
THE WITNESS: Okay. That's it. I've read it.
THE COURT: Okay. Can you repeat the question again.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  You would agree that there's no solo on the deposit copy lead sheet of "Stairway to Heaven" which was deposited with the office?
A. Yeah, we -- I agree with that. It's not in there, no.
Q. All right. And you've identified the solo as a very important part of the composition of "Stairway to Heaven," correct?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection, again relevance. This is the defendants' work. He's talking about performance elements.
THE COURT: Sustained.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  You'd agree with me that if you go to the beginning of this composition as identified on the deposit copy lead sheet, that it starts with "There's a lady"; it starts with the vocal melody and lyric, correct?
MR. ANDERSON: Again, relevance.
THE COURT: Sustained. Sustained.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  You would agree with me that the introductory notes of "Stairway to Heaven" are not represented in this "Stairway to Heaven" deposit copy, correct?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection, relevance.
THE COURT: Overruled.
If you know.
THE WITNESS: The -- the -- say it again, please.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  You'd agree with me that the song "Stairway to Heaven" doesn't start with "There's a lady who's sure"; there is an introductory part that precedes that?
A. No. The lyrics start with "There's a lady who's sure," but, yes, there's an introductory guitar passage.
Q. And that's not represented in the deposit copy?
A. No. It was a solo. You're correct.
Q. Did you see Dr. Lawrence Ferrara's report where he identified that there was --
THE COURT: Counsel --
THE WITNESS: No.
THE COURT: -- he's already testified he didn't see any of the expert reports.
THE WITNESS: No.
THE COURT: And I don't want you reading in what somebody's testified. They can testify to it. I don't want that coming in in front of the jury unless a witness testifies to it.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Would you agree that all the notes of "Stairway to Heaven" are not represented in the deposit copy of "Stairway to Heaven"?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection, relevance.
THE COURT: Sustained. Not relevant.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  Is it your testimony as you sit here today that you believe "Stairway to Heaven" is more similar to "Chim Chim Cher-ee" than "Stairway to Heaven" is similar to "Taurus"?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection. He's not an expert witness.
He's asking for a -- I guess a musicological comparison between a Mary Poppins song and "Stairway to Heaven."
THE COURT: You still haven't hit it. Relevancy?
MR. ANDERSON: Relevance, yes, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. MALOFIY: I have no further questions of this witness.
THE COURT: Okay. Close to the two minutes, Counsel, close.
MR. MALOFIY: Okay. What's that?
THE COURT: I said it was close to the two minutes.
MR. MALOFIY: Oh.
THE COURT: Cross-examination.
MR. ANDERSON: And with the break being moved around, I didn't quite catch when we're breaking.
THE COURT: 11:30.
MR. ANDERSON: 11:30. Great. Thank you, Your Honor.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. ANDERSON:  Good morning, Mr. Page.
A. Good morning.
Q. Counsel yesterday, plaintiff's counsel, played an audio recording that you indicated, I believe, was difficult to hear, and it starts with a reference to really liking Spirit, and then it goes on.
What was the rest of that audio recording about?
A. Umm, it -- basically, it was asking what bands I – I liked, and I'm not -- I -- I can't remember the -- the build-up to it, because it's an interview, and then there's a question, and -- okay, so there's a question, and I -- I start to say which bands I like, and I say I like Spirit, and then I go on to say -- talk about a West Coast band called Kaleidoscope.
And I really start talking about Kaleidoscope to the degree that I'd seen them at the Avalon Ballroom, seen them in The Scene club in New York, and that I really like their music, and I was talking about albums that I knew of theirs.
Q. Albums by whom?
A. Kaleidoscope.
Q. Thank you.
You testified yesterday that you had heard Spirit singles on the radio. What singles were you referring to?
A. Fresh Gar- -- this is in the very early stages of -- actually, even pre Led Zeppelin, when I was in Yardbirds. It's "Fresh Garbage" that I heard on the radio. And during the time of Led Zeppelin, I heard "I Got A Line On You, Babe," and also, a little later on from that, "Dark-eyed Woman."
Q. Thank you.
Today counsel asked you about mixes of "Stairway to Heaven" that were done at Sunset Sound.
Could you explain for the jury the process of recording from, you know, how it is recorded and then how it is mixed.
A. Okay. Well, the recording of "Stairway to Heaven" is done across a multitrack analog tape. And by nature of that, you'd say, for example, have the guitar, acoustic guitar introduction on one track, you would have the recorders mixed in over a couple of tracks, you'll have the vocal, you'll have the drums, the electric piano. All these are taking up all different tracks. And then there's the guitar overdubs of 12 strings and -- electric 12 strings, which is two running through the whole of it. And then there's the solo. The bass as well. So all of these things are across a number of tracks, and you record them. And this was done in England, the recording.
And the first attempt at mixing, not only "Stairway to Heaven," it was the other material that would have been done around that time, including "When the Levee Breaks," we went to -- "we" meaning myself and the engineer, Andy Jones, went to Sunset Sound or Sunset Studios, where we proceeded to start mixing all of the various titles.
So -- so the process of mixing is you -- you recall all of the tracks. They come through a mixing board. And then you -- you balance them. So some things are in priority to others.
You add effects. And basically that's -- that's the way you go. You try and get the best blend of all the ingredients that you've got in a mix.
Q. Thank you, sir.
So the mix of, for example, "Stairway to Heaven" that was done at Sunset Sounds, that was a mix of multitracks that were created in England?
A. Correct.
Q. And was that mix at Sunset Sounds, was that used for the album Led Zeppelin IV?
A. No, it wasn't. The levee -- "When the Levee Breaks" was used on the Led Zeppelin IV, but not the "Stairway to Heaven."
Q. And just to be clear, what -- of the album Led Zeppelin IV, what songs were mixed in at Sunset Sounds?
A. On Led Zeppelin IV?
Q. Yes, sir.
A. The only one that -- that -- that materialized -- see, many of the work that we did at Sunset Sound, and there was a lot, lot of titles involved, is just "When the Levee Breaks." That's the only one.
Q. And the recording of "Stairway to Heaven" that appears on Led Zeppelin IV, was that both written by you, recorded, and mixed in England?
A. Yes, it was. It was after the Sunset Sound recordings.
Q. So could you explain how that came about, that there was a second mix prepared in England?
A. Umm, in effect, when we -- when Andy and I brought the mixes back to London -- the sound system in Sunset Sound was very, very colorful, the speakers, and when we played them back in the -- in the little -- well, it's like a listening room at Olympic Studios, it sounded very flat and just very mid-range.
They didn't have the complete dynamics of everything that we had put into it, what we could hear. And at that particular point of time, there had been stories about tapes getting demagnetized, and we thought maybe something had happened to the tapes in the transfer.
Now, the tapes are these multitracks, and then you mix down to a two-track quarter inch. And this is what we're referring to. In fact, all of the tapes could have had a -- some -- some -- something might have happened to them. But in actual fact, we sort of went about remixing it anyway, because some of the mixes weren't quite as up-to-speed. It was all done in a short space of time over here in L.A., and it was one of those things, well, let's -- let's redo it, because, A, it sounded strange over there. But what actually happened was, then we remixed everything, and I couldn't equal the mix that was in my mind from the "When the Levee Breaks." And in actual fact, we sort of opened up the EQ on it, which is the treble and the bass expanding, and it was there, and we could – we hadn't topped what we'd done at Sunset Sound, so we used it.
But actual fact, the mix of "Stairway to Heaven" in England was superior to the Sunset. It was different, but, you know, it worked for the time.
Q. You referred to after Sunset Sounds there was a remix of the London multitracks. Where did the remix occur?
A. It was at Island, I think it was, or Olympic, one of –
Q. And where are Island -- and those are recording --
A. Okay, they're in London. They're in London, yeah.
Q. And they're recording studios?
A. Yeah, they're recording studios, yeah.
MR. ANDERSON: If Your Honor could just indulge me while I confer with counsel.
(Defense counsel conferred privately.)
MR. ANDERSON: Thank you, Your Honor. I apologize.
Those are all the questions I have for Mr. Page.
THE COURT: Okay.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
THE COURT: Redirect?
MR. MALOFIY: Yeah. Thank you.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. MALOFIY:  Just to be clear, initially, "Stairway to Heaven" was recorded at Island Studios in the UK, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. Then you went to the United States, to Sunset Studios here in L.A., and you mixed it down, correct?
A. Along with other tracks, correct.
Q. Right. Then you went back to the UK. You went to Olympic Studios for a listening session, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And then you didn't like the way the Sunset Sounds mix sounded, and then you remixed it at Island, correct?
A. The material that we'd done, yes.
Q. And then the Sunset Studios --
A. Mixing.
Q. -- mix, which was done in the United States, in L.A., was then re-released just recently in 2015, correct?
MR. ANDERSON: Objection, misstates the testimony.
There was no re-release. It was never released.
THE WITNESS: No.
THE COURT: No, he may answer the question.
Overruled.
BY MR. MALOFIY:  The recent -- the recent Led Zeppelin IV album which was released, didn't it have a companion --
A. Correct.
Q. -- audio of the Sunset Studios mix which was done in the United States?
A. It gave an opportunity to be able to -- to present the Sunset Sound mix.
Q. Thank you.
No further questions.
THE COURT: Okay. Redirect? Or recross?
RECROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. ANDERSON:  Mr. Page, just to clarify, was the Sunset Sounds mix of "Stairway to Heaven" used in any way, at any point, from the beginning of time up until today?
A. Not until the re-releases.
Q. And when was that?
A. Two years ago, I'd say.
Q. Okay. Thank you.
THE COURT: You may step down.
THE WITNESS: Thank you very much.
THE COURT: Okay. Next witness.
MR. MALOFIY: I'll let Mr. Page pass me by before I stand.
THE COURT: Sure.
MR. MALOFIY: Thank you, Mr. Page.

TOMORROW: Robert Plant sings Stairway To Heaven in court, Jimmy Page talks song writing.